Curse

ruksak · Nov 10, 2011, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I tried not to be lazy and did a search for my query, however after 20 or so minutes of searching I came up empty. I'm looking for advice on building an imbagon. I read the wiki and it gave a generic outline of the general idea, however it left many questions. I tried to make my own Imba and it really seemed promising, only lacking, like something was missing.

I know that there are likely many variants of this build with the same general philosophy, however I would like to hear some ideas from people experienced at playing Imbagon. Skillbar sets....techniques, anything would be appreciated.

Cyrona Jalen Irsei · Nov 10, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

What's your current build?

Imbagon is really any combination of skills that enables you to spam party wide buffs, particularly Save Yourselves! while putting out reasonable damage yourself. It hinges on maintaining SY as close to 100% of the time as possible, therefore a reliable method of generating adrenaline is a priority. The version on the pvx wiki is a pretty good starting point, then adjust to your tastes.

Techniques? Try not to be the focus of enemy attacks and mash mash mash.

akelarumi · Nov 10, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Paragon is one of the strangest classes I enjoy playing. It is strange cause as a healer I am used to see an effect of healing someone, as a damage dealer im used to see a lot of damage go by, as a tank i see i've got things nicely balled. As a paragon you don't see a thing. You aren't dealing a lot of direct damage and your not healing. You are providing buffs for your party making them better.

Having said that, the paragon is still a bit underpowered and limited. if thats not a thing you want, it's better to give it up now......

When I play my paragon for general use I like to use a combination of Imbagon (but not fully) and combining blazing finale with go for the eyes. This means I can still put up "save yourselfs" enough to be very effectfull while go for the eyes triggers blazing finale for a nice buff on damage.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 10, 2011, 02:33 PM // 14:33

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:P/W_Imbagon

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...t10313323.html

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10151254.html

ruksak · Nov 10, 2011, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Thanks for the links, Calista. I hadn't seen the first one and thats what I was looking for. I've been running a focused scythe build and I just loved it, thought I'd try something new.

I slapped together a build of my own, but the damage was lacking entirely, plus there was a lull in Adrenaline build-up.

I had this as my bar;

SY
TNtF
Anthem of Flame (for energy and to synergize ToF)
"They're on Fire"
Aggressive Refrain
Focused Anger

Self heal and res

As I said, it worked well but the damage was horrid (not too concerned about that) and there was a lull in adrenaline recharge. It was the adrenaline that had me concerned.

Quaker · Nov 10, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Here's what I use for an Imbagon:

Holy Spear, Wild Throw, Aggressive Refrain, Focused Anger, "Save Yourselves!", "There's Nothing To Fear!", "Watch Yourself!", Sunspear Rebirth Signet

The 1st 2 skills are not important to the build - I just have them in case a situation might use them. I don't concern myself with doing damage as an Imbagon.

The main idea is to keep SY up as much as possible to give the rest of the party +100 armor. AR and FA are used to accomplish that, by generating lots of Adrenaline. THtF is also used as a general party buff when energy permits.
WY is used to give yourself an armor boost (since SY doesn't) and to help maintain AR by having an additional shout. (WY does not stack with SY - so no one gets +124 armor

)

I use a Furious Spear of Defence with an "I Have the Power" inscription (+5 energy) and a focus for an extra +6 energy, but a shield works also.

The general idea is to use AR and FA and keep blasting away at the nearest target.
EDIT: Note - this is assuming that you're not the 'caller' or doing a 'solo' party.
Edit #2 - I don't play my Paragon, except to do things like holiday quests. So, this 'build' (to use the term loosely

) is definitely not optimized in any sense. (nor, does it need to be 99% of the time

)

You're main goal is to maintain SY as much as possible, so it's not important what type of target you attack. You also want to monitor your skills and keep doing the shouts to keep AR up.

wilebill · Nov 10, 2011, 04:53 PM // 16:53

akelarumi said it very well for the conventional paragon. "Having said that, the paragon is still a bit underpowered and limited. if thats not a thing you want, it's better to give it up now......" Why? Because party protection is not everything. Damage helps a lot.

Catch is, your party has +100 armor. You do not. Have to watch out for that. Side by side comparisons with identical parties of Paragon and Ranger Beast Master has shown the Ranger BM to be more effective and survivable in many situations. With Asuran Scan, the BM does not miss and with Otyugh's Cry up, the beast does not either.

Then too, armor ignoring skills go right through your Save Yourselves as if it were not there. All that being said, I still love my paragon. it does not have to be a boring character.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Sandbox is a valuable set of Paragon builds by Khomet. Almost none of them are boring.

dasmitchies · Nov 10, 2011, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Just remember, heroes sometimes prioritize the target you attack. So blindly picking a target to attack sometimes causes issues. I have had instances where I called a target and then switched to a closer one (so I wouldn't drag the imba into the frontline) and the heroes switched targets with me. In harder areas you have to pull enemies very carefully to make certain that the imba doesn't get dragged into mellee. Imba is fun for awhile, just remeber if you are doing it right, you are the weakest person on your team.

JONO51 · Nov 10, 2011, 05:27 PM // 17:27

I don't really see what there is to "miss" if you go via the pvx build, as that basically the most optimal version for PvE. For the attack skills use Vicious Attack and Spear of Lightning (without orders) or swift javelin (with orders). SY gives you the energy to maintain TNtF (which maintains AR), EBSoH and adrenaline building skills perfectly fine. You can hit off an attack skill when you have the energy (you'll get to know after a while when the right time is).

Looking at your attempt you posted, the reason for you adrenaline lull was the lack of "For Great Justice!". I'd also drop anthem of flame and ToF as they don't contribute much at all (total damage reduction from SY+TNtF is something like 90%). Then you're basically at the pvx build again (which also stops your damage being bad as well as buffing teammates damage too)...

Personally, I run this build, but I have 6 second SY and it just isn't needed 99% of the time in my experience. This gives the ability to quickly switch to SY spam if needed for an encounter, while still having plenty of damage/utility for the other encounters in a zone.

Enfeebling blood | Spear of Lightning | Cruel Spear | TNtF | SY | EBSoH | Aggressive Refrain| Fall back!

chuckles79 · Nov 10, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

The nice thing about the imbagon, contrary to popular belief, is that only two skills are set in stone; SY and TntF.
I've played around a bit and you have to adapt to the situation.

I have a build that works best for me:
1. Spear of Fury (Best spear attack in the game, bar none, that will charge SY with the first attack.)
2. GftE (mostly for additional Energy, but I try to synergize my heroes accordingly)
3. Save Yourselves (i'm r10 Kurzick, so slam mashing this is easier now)
4. TntF
5. Anthem of Flame (swap for Anthem of Weariness when dealing with destroyers, or areas with a lot of physical mayhem)
6. Focused Anger (see 7.)
7. Aggressive Refrain (if running with "They're on Fire" or "Can't Touch This", I'd swap these two out for Soldier's Fury, but I find Focused Anger less maintenance.
8. Optional (For Great Justice to keep up adrenal buff (not necessary for most areas), Fall Back when you need to cover a lot of ground, or We Shall Return for difficult areas where a quick res can prevent a wipe.)

Variants that work just fine
If you are capping skills you may want to swap Vicious Attack in at 1. for the possibility of deep wound spikes.

I haven't tried Air of Superiority with an imbagon build but after reading the pvx entry I think I'll try that sometime.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

Rather than telling us your build, why don't you explain how you have two secondary professions?
Enfeebling Blood = Necro
SY = Warrior
rest = Paragon

Lanier · Nov 10, 2011, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Paragons can do decent single-target damage, and since you don't need to invest heavily in any other attribute to abuse the PvE-only skills, you might as well stick those attribute points into spear mastery and get some damage out of your attacks.

Here is the core of the imbagon build:
Focused Anger
Aggressive Refrain
Save Yourselves
There's nothing to fear

There are other varients of the core but this is the best as it doesn't gimp your damage or suck up all your energy like the other varients do. Note that Tntf can be used to maintain AR (its easier with a sup leadership headpiece that you swap to when casting AR), but you can also bring anthem of weariness or anthem of flame for maintaining AR if you don't mind stopping to cast them every 10-15 seconds. I don't recommend They're on fire unless you have other sources of burning in your party.

Finally, this leaves you with several free skill slots and a lot of free attribute points, since so far, all you have used is 4 (or 5) skill slots and full attribute investment in leadership. My advice from here would be to stick 2 energy-based spear attacks in your build. Adrenaline skills are not recommended as they will slow down your ability to spam SY. Plus, the SY spam will give you all the energy you need to use these energy-based spear attacks. I think that I use Spear of Fury and Spear of lightning in my build. Also don't forget to add spear mastery attribute points. My attribute spread, with runes, is 15 spear, 9 command, and 12 leadership. Your final skills are really up to personal preference. I would, however, recommend using cheap energy skills, as adding adrenal skills slows down the SY spam.

EDIT: forgot about FGJ. This skill should be stapled to your bar as it is required to maintain SY when FA is on down and still recharging

ruksak · Nov 10, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I appreciate all the ideas, this is exactly what I was hoping for in this thread.

I've played around with it a bit. What I've been running is;

SY
TNtF
FA
AR
For Great Justice
Watch Yourself (not sure about this one)

It's working terrific and has solved the delay in adrenal charge, however, I'm having some issue keeping the Refrain echo rolling between battles, which is why I enjoyed AoF. Any tips to solve this would be appreciated. Other than that I think I just need to adjust too the timing and maybe tweak it using all the information gathered here.

You guys are great, thanks for all the help.

khezial tahr · Nov 10, 2011, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I use fall back! on my para and for great justice! FGJ! helps keep adrenaline up and keeps Refrain rolling. Fall back on myself and a few heros (where I can squeeze it in, ie. warriors) helps make it easier. Also makes running around much faster.

_Aphotic_ · Nov 10, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruksak

For Great Justice

Not necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruksak

Watch Yourself (not sure about this one)

The +10 or w/e armor does not stack with "Save Yourselves!".
"Armor Cap" (maximum +armor you can get) is an annoyingly complex concept, so don't worry too much about it yet (look it up on wiki if you're curious).
Basically, armor CANNOT gain bonuses past +24, with the exceptions of "Save Yourselves!" and "I Am Unstoppable!".

Personally, I run this face-smashing build:
14 Leadership, 9 Spear, 9 Command with:

"Find Their Weakness!"- I've ran many variants of Imbagon- none which compare to the raw spiking power of this skill + your heroes. Cover Conditions in the party are nice, but not necessary. With decent damage, every 15 seconds, something is guaranteed to die (calling helps too).
Anthem of Weariness- The essential feed for Spear of Fury, and lets you dwindle down enemy frontliners.
Spear of Fury- The essential and emergency skill for 100% "SY!" uptime. If any of your attacks at any point fail or miss, this basically instantaneously charges your "SY!".
"We Shall Return!"- with 14 Leadership, you can use this and still easily maintain a high pool of energy.
Focused Anger
"TNTF!" (optional/change around slot)
"Fall Back!" (optional/change around slot)

I DO NOT run Aggressive Refrain- as it's possible to keep up "SY!" with Spear of Fury and Focused Anger alone (at the cost of a pve-only slot).

However, if you run AR- I suggest putting Asuran Scan somewhere in your build- so that way you won't fail to hit your targets and risk a late "SY!" (also consider putting a cover hex on your heroes).

And despite what everyone else may or may not say, Asuran Scan wasn't nerfed- it was changed entirely, and is a pretty rockin' skill for a lot of my builds (no need for wild strike/throw, enchant removal, etc...)

Axel Zinfandel · Nov 10, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

The odd thing about imbagon is people seem to have a lot of different preferences as to a few skills and what not. Some people swear by FA and others SF, and there's even builds that use Soldier's Stance and you can even charge SY just by using Auspicious Parry.

The thing is they are all fine and dandy. People push their own tweaks to the build and whatnot, but it is important that most of the popular cookie cutter builds are designed to be as efficient as possible in fueling SY!, which may even be way more than you need. It's not as hard as it seems anymore to fuel an SY!. Orders/Dark Fury is important though as well.

ruksak · Nov 10, 2011, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Aphotic_

Not necessary.

The +10 or w/e armor does not stack with "Save Yourselves!".
"Armor Cap" (maximum +armor you can get) is an annoyingly complex concept, so don't worry too much about it yet (look it up on wiki if you're curious).
Basically, armor CANNOT gain bonuses past +24, with the exceptions of "Save Yourselves!" and "I Am Unstoppable!".

Personally, I run this face-smashing build:
14 Leadership, 9 Spear, 9 Command with:

"Find Their Weakness!"- I've ran many variants of Imbagon- none which compare to the raw spiking power of this skill + your heroes. Cover Conditions in the party are nice, but not necessary. With decent damage, every 15 seconds, something is guaranteed to die (calling helps too).
Anthem of Weariness- The essential feed for Spear of Fury, and lets you dwindle down enemy frontliners.
Spear of Fury- The essential and emergency skill for 100% "SY!" uptime. If any of your attacks at any point fail or miss, this basically instantaneously charges your "SY!".
"We Shall Return!"- with 14 Leadership, you can use this and still easily maintain a high pool of energy.
Focused Anger
"TNTF!" (optional/change around slot)
"Fall Back!" (optional/change around slot)

I DO NOT run Aggressive Refrain- as it's possible to keep up "SY!" with Spear of Fury and Focused Anger alone (at the cost of a pve-only slot).

However, if you run AR- I suggest putting Asuran Scan somewhere in your build- so that way you won't fail to hit your targets and risk a late "SY!" (also consider putting a cover hex on your heroes).

And despite what everyone else may or may not say, Asuran Scan wasn't nerfed- it was changed entirely, and is a pretty rockin' skill for a lot of my builds (no need for wild strike/throw, enchant removal, etc...)

Now that was juicy. Good stuff here.

My original decision to use WY was for my own benefit, since I get nothing from SY. Its only adding 12 to my armor as it sits now, so I cannot say if its worth the slot. I like some of your ideas and I'm gonna have some fun trying to implement them. Thanks!

Lanier · Nov 10, 2011, 11:43 PM // 23:43

err... no. There's no reason to depend on Spear of Fury to charge SY when you could just use an Increased Attack Speed (AR is the best). In fact, I don't even know if it is possible to maintain SY with Spear of Fury. SY has a max duration of 6 and spear of fury has a recharge of 8. Plus, physical profs should ALWAYS be using an Increased Attack Speed skill.

If you're going to roll as an imbagon, just stick to the standard core of FA, AR, Tntf, FGJ, and SY.

Watch yourself could be interesting... but I really don't think +24 armor just for the user is worth it. Keep in mind that the more adrenaline skills besides SY that you use, the harder it will be to upkeep SY. Personally, SY is my only adrenal skill.

itiscurtains · Nov 11, 2011, 12:43 AM // 00:43

^Totally agree with everything Lanier just said.

I'll add, too, that I think "Watch Yourself!" is pretty pointless. With "SY!" up, the rest of your party will be taking essentially zero damage, easily allowing your backliners to mitigate whatever damage your character might take.

Khomet Si Netjer · Nov 11, 2011, 03:01 AM // 03:01

in my opinion FGJ is not necessary at all, i don't use it. The brief downtime of FA can simply be ignored if you have other adrenal boosters or even just IAS.
(spear with +33% IAS hits every 1.1 seconds, SY can last 6 seconds, so you can have almost 100% uptime of SY just by autoattacking) This math also implies that the adrenal boost from Focused Anger is almost twice as much adrenaline as you need to maintain SY, so you can use other skills such as Soldier's Fury, Soldier's Stance, or perhaps even something else.

Spear of Fury has already been mentioned as a useful skill and I think it is vastly underrated. The damage is nice but the true power of this skill is to fully charge almost all of your adrenal skills... even without an adrenal booster this can give you +7 adrenaline in one hit. This allows you to have SY up as the battle begins which is just when you need it most. It also charges Wild Throw instantly, and with this you can take down blocking stances immediately and watch the target die from a hail of spears within a second or two. The imbagon's adrenaline gain allows him to use Wild Throw every 3-4 seconds. (!!)

Aside from the above mentioned I'd also recommend Make Your Time, when combined with Focused Anger it allows you to use Save Yourselves instantly, even while blinded, obstructed, blocked or even before aggro.

Here are a few variants that I have created, I hope you find them useful.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Guardian
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:.../Furious_Angel
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...Stance_Imbagon
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...urning_Barrage

Luminarus · Nov 11, 2011, 04:31 AM // 04:31

The other things that nice about spear of fury is its a faster attack then a regular attack, and with +45 damage i think it is... if your bringing a spear attack, ur better off with spear of fury. If your not, ud better have 6 really worthwhile skills.